Nothing left now but . . .

Or to Arms.


The Modern Militiaman's Internet Gazette

May 1, 1998, Issue #11-98

Propping Up The Militia Movement


Purpose: Our purpose is to serve the Resistance/Patriot Movement as an occassional gazette providing news and commentary favorable to our Cause in a format accessible to the general public.

The news from e-mail listings is shown in preformatted text. This news will be attributed to its authors/editors and is entirely the opinion of that particular author/editor.
One of the reasons for this is to cut down on the spamming and foolishness inherent in raw e-mail in order to provide a forum for discussion of Resistance Movement issues.

Commentary is in regular format and is solely the opinions of the Editor and Staff of Modern Militiaman Internet Gazette.

Editor Martin Lindstedt

Fable of Contents

1. This Issue's Editorial Commentary -- by Martin Lindstedt
2. Original Report from Knob Creek -- Joe "Six-Pack Burton -- Apr. 21, 1998
3. Lawrence Myers Responds To Joe Six-Pack Burton
4. Mr. Rydel Asks For Advice
5. Ken-the-Snitch McWilliams Commiserates With Dave Rydel
6. Suggestions Concerning the u.S. Theater Command
10. Current Conditions in this Country
11. Return Fire! Letters to the Editor



--Editor Martin Lindstedt




Original Report from Knob Creek

From: SafanNews (
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:18:39 EDT
Subject: SAFAN NO. 1172.  Knob Creek/Deep Mud or Deep BS 
(Bull Splatter) or....

                   STOP ALL FEDERAL ABUSES NOW!!!
               SAFAN Internet Newsletter, NO. 1172, Apr. 23, 1998

by "joe 6pk"  (Joe Burton) 4/21/97

And so they came, people from all walks of life, from various 
states of the union -- men, women and children. The event 
[Apr. 17-19] was the National Machine Gun Shoot in Knob Creek, 
Kentucky.  Little was I to know, just how much the sparks would 
fly there, on this my second visit!

My friend Harry and I checked in to the campground around noon 
on Friday April 17th.  The residue of the 16 twisters that struck 
Nashville had dropped quite a bit of rain on this area and the 
ground was well soaked.  Since the areas nearest the road was 
already occupied, we settled on an area down a slight incline 
about 100 ft. off the road.  We unloaded our trucks and set up 
camp.  Harry being an intelligent fellow, (who had been there 
before in the rain) brought along a couple bales of hay, which we 
put down in order to keep down the muddy mess that's associated 
with camping in wet conditions. 

We had just finished our endeavor and sat down to relax and enjoy 
our new home away from home.  A car drove down in front of us 
into a muddy low spot and stopped ... with some spinning and 
pushing from the two younger guy's with him, this older driver 
was able to get out of the hole he had dug, but was unable to 
climb the slight embankment.  Harry and I got up and was about 
to help push this man back, so he could get a running start. 
Others had beat us to him and were pushing.  Again the man stopped 
in the same hole and spun mud all over those who had tried to 
help.  When I saw the man couldn't drive, I sat down and Harry 
told them to wait for the tractor to pull him out.  He sat down 
as well.

   All of a sudden the man gunnned his engine and sprayed mud 
all over not only our tents, but on us and all of our gear as well. 
As I sat stunned at first, Harry leaped to his feet and was 
hollering for the man to stop.  I was soon up and putting my two 
cents worth in.  The three of them remained silent as they waited 
for the rescue tractor. . .  Thus began our visit to Knob Creek. 

After a brief clean up effort, we decided to visit the gun range 
and vendors on the midway.  While shopping around some of the 
vendors "goodies" I ran into Mark Koernke , whom I had visited 
with, both at his home back in Oct. and at the survival show in 
Atlanta this past Feb.  I spoke with him in regards to some 
personal attacks that he has had, about those I have had, as well 
as other personal matters, and his case status.  Understanding 
that being in the forefront of this movement can lead to attacks, 
not only from government sources, but from supposed friendly 
forces as well. I wished Mark well and continued my endeavors 
shopping like a kid in a candy store.

And I returned to the campground and walked around visiting 
some of the various Militia units from around the country.  Many 
I knew, though some it was a first time I'd met in person.   As 
I talked to some of them, I got the feeling something was in the 
wind, but at that time, I wasn't sure just what it was.

Later that evening we made our way down to Shepardsville to the 
Best Western Motel, where the hosts of this weekends Militia get 
together, the United States Theater Command [David Rydel], were 
having a meeting.  There were about a dozen or so in attendance. 
Dave Rydel invited us to join in and we accepted his offer.

Art Bean was discussing the fact that anyone you talk with these 
days could be a FED, or in fact anyone setting at the table could 
be a FED or CIA.  I agreed with his point and noted that I had 
recently been accused of being a Russian agent myself, by a 
mindless female gossip from Knoxville.  I said there have been so 
many attacks lately, on so many of us and I had indeed predicted 
it in some of my past articles. Attacks on myself, Koernke, Rydel, 
Boris, Huizinger, Wayne, Riley, Johnson, Harris, Kwaja, Gritz, 
Trochman, and too many others to name, since the list is endless. 
(To my list readers you will note: I did not pass on the recent 
report on John Trochman and others since obviously it was lacking 
in evidence), full of accusation and rumor. 

We can't all be spooks I stated!  We need an Intelligence panel to 
weed these accusations out, OR prove them, I said.  But we must 
make sure that when these charges are brought, IF they are 
disproven, that the results are the discrediting of the ones 
bringing the false charges.  They readily agreed and asked if I 
would be willing to put this panel together.  I said yes BUT, 
whomever sits on the panel is thoroughly checked out by the other 
panel members and confirmed ... starting with me.  If we are truly 
who and what we say we are, we shouldn't mind standing for 
inspection.  Myself and many others live on our integrity and 
credibility that we have built over the years in this movement.
We have to have a way to clear our names.  Everyone agreed and it 
was decided it would be brought up at the Saturday meeting.  Dave 
Rydel asked if he could be the first to be checked out when this 
panel is seated.  First we will need people to formally provide 
charges and enter proof, I said.

I also shared with them my documentation packets and my recent 
evidence re: the cloud/contrails and the matter dropped from them. 
They asked if I would be willing to address the group with my 
pictures and documentation and I agreed to this as well. 

They then went on to discuss among other things, the need for 
National Ham radio encryption communications and said this info 
would be presented at the meeting as well by an individual 
knowledgeable in the field.  It didn't occur to me to ask who 
that individual would be. 

Dave was kind enough to give Harry and myself a nice hat as the 
meeting concluded.  Little was I to know that hat would signify 
one faction among many, at the next day's meet.

Saturday's meeting was to begin at 1300 hours, but people were 
still streaming into the VFW hall, so the start was delayed. 
Scattered among the attendees were a few ladies and a sprinkling 
of kids.  Most were men dressed in full camo, though some of us 
were in civilian camo (street clothes).

Four Star General Woodcock entered and sparks immediately began 
as he and Art Bean immediately began a confrontation.  A couple 
of us got between them, as others restrained these would be 
combatants.  We appealed to their sensory side so that they would 
realize this was not the time or place for combat.

John Trochman entered and took his beef with Rydel to him and 
they both went over to a table, sat down like gentlemen and came 
to an understanding between them.

Rydel tried to get the meeting started and complaints were coming 
from the floor, he turned the floor over to Drew Rayner, who began 
the meeting on a positive note with the prayer and pledge.  This 
turned out to be the highlight of the meeting.  Drew began trying 
to explain what we hoped to accomplish and explained about 
the intell panel and immediately was challenged by Rick Ainsworth 
of 3CC about WHO decided this?  Drew responded in regards to the 
prior nights meeting and again Ainsworth interrupted saying no 
deference to Mr. 6pk but I want to know who decided.  At that point 
I took the floor briefly explaining I would have more to say about 
it later, but that it would be made up of different parts of the
country to stop all these problems.

The next discussion was about a man from the University of Indiana 
who was writing a book on Militias and wanted to be present for 
the meeting.  A vote was taken and immediately there were challenges 
to the vote.  I had returned to my seat over by Harry and he 
whispered asking me if I knew the guy over by the door who used to 
work for Media Bypass.  I looked and couldn't believe my eyes ...
it was none other than Lawrence Myers.

I watched as Myers moved on into the room.  The question of media 
presence persisted and Drew asked Larry a question relating to it. 
Myers started to respond when I interrupted and petitioned Drew to 
have him identify himself.  He did so and someone questioned why I 
was asking, I stated: This is the same Lawrence Myers who was a 
confidential informant for the FBI, in the Chuck (fifth column) 
Hayes trial.  I was at that trial and I saw the FBI sacrifice this 
informant personally.  He is with the Feds .... I assure you. 
Someone noted that indeed he had a wire in his ear, he protested 
to little avail that it was a line feed for media.  Still another 
mentioned he was talking into his shirt when he came in about the 
security at the door.  No one wanted to hear from this FBI wannabe 
at that point.

In another side bar, Woodcock was complaining that Rydel had put 
out the word that he had been killed and his men were under attack. 
He said he wanted to insure everyone he was very much alive as 
snickers broke out and more cries rang out against Rydel.  Ainsworth 
took his men and walked out, as did some of the others.  At this 
point I felt incredibly bad for the ones who had travelled so 
far and had much to give.  Men like Don from Ca. or Mack and his 
friends from Maine and many others from long distances.  Patriots 
who care and came to make a difference.  You who walked out, didn't 
just walk out on Rydel.  No you also walked out on some real 

At this point the meeting began to deteriorate and ol' Lawrence 
came over and said Joe 6pk hey, funny I don't recall seeing you at 
the trial.  I said thats OK Lawrence, I noticed you were a little 
nervous that day.  I had a pony tail back then and I look a little 
differently now.  I'll tell you how you can know I was there 
Lawrence.  I'm sure you remember J. Orlin Grabbe and Jim Norman
being there.  It really doesn't matter what you remember to me 
Lawrence, but I remember quite well how the FBI sacrificed you and 
how you worked with them and had been working with them, prior to 
the Hayes case as well.  He started trying to defend his actions 
and I just turned my back to him and started talking to others 

The meeting moved out into the parking lot and Woodcock stated 
he had absolute proof of what Rydel did to him.  He went to his car 
and retrieved an email that was sent out.  He said, see it say's 
right there "eagleflt". Someone took the email and examined it and 
pointed out to the general that the origin of the piece was from a and was probably untraceable.  The general said 
let me see that and it was pointed out to him.  He began stammering 
out an apology to Dave and Dave to his credit was gracious to 
accept.  When the apology came, few were present to hear it that 
were in the hall listening to the initial tirade.   
   Do not assume I am a Dave Rydel fan, also do not assume I am
an enemy, because I am neither. I just firmly believe, a man has 
a right to face his accusers and present evidence to defend himsef 
or herself, as the case may be. Too many are too eager to grab a 
rope and in this movement, that's scary! 

As far as his background, Drew and myself have checked it out, as 
far as the foreground I have heard murmurings for a year now.  Who 
has the evidence?  If you don't like what the man is doing it's 
simple, out do him, get the job done better, before you condemn 
or present proof if you can.

Back in the parking lot, Dave being busy, had heard only parts of 
my attack on Myers and asked me what it was about, so I explained 
it to him in detail, at which point he gasped and said, it was 
Myers who was to give the presentation on Ham radio operation 
and encryption.  I then, was the one to gasp that much harder, 
not believing my ears!!!

If after reading about Myers psychological problems, both inside 
the military and out, if I had any doubts about his mental 
condition, they were quickly resolved, as I realized the 
implications of him leading the Militia's encryption 
communications and walking openly among men who SHOULD know 

OK men, for your first intell lesson, let's all go to J. Orlin 
Grabbe's web page at  Now scroll down 
the page and click on the articles re: one Lawrence Myers, go on 
now, it's easier than digging through all your old Media Bypass 
articles of months gone by, that you failed to remember what you 
read.  Go ahead read this web page, I'll wait here for you. BTW 
if your not reading Grabbe's page every day, your in the dark 
about alot of things.  Stop, you can go back and read the TWA 800 
and the other great info, when we are done here.

US??  Do we have any intell???   Would we allow a FBI informant to 
direct us in anything??  After the John Parsons fiasco, I would 
have thought we were smarter than that.  What next?  Do we let 
Lawrence's good buddy, Jeff Randall take a command??

GET REAL YOU GUYS, it's time we either put up, or shut up!!!  The 
feds broke this meeting up, with the assistance of a few gullibles. 
Now do we want to do something about this problem, or ignore it 
and pretend it doesn't exist???

Do we need a National Militia?  NO!!  Too many egos!!  BUT we DO 
need to be able to communicate and work together solving problems. 
But most importantly, we need to shut down the rumour mills, stop 
the provacatuers and uncover the feds and ci's!!  NOW !! I have 
volunteered again, like I need yet another assignment, but I will 
not fund it. If this is something that comes about, it will be 
because good and honorable men came TOGETHER to find a solution !!!

Let everyone take note: there are many fine units in this once 
proud Republic. Salute Col. John and that fine Bama bunch. There 
were several others, distinguished by their character and service 
and what they are doing is appreciated by us all.  First and 
foremost we should all serve our state republic or common-wealth. 
Therefore I am a proud member of the TVM.

Let us all lay our ego's aside and work for Liberty, under a 
Sovereign God.  For I assure everyone reading this, there are NO 
HEROES in this movement, until AFTER the battle is fought !!!

Last week, John Lewis told us, that unless an Oliver Cromwell or 
a William Wallace or a John Muhlenberg emerged, we are doomed. 
And you know what?  I believe him!

joe 6pk said it - Plunging a New Whirrled Odor !!
Feel free to repost or compost, but save the flames, I've got 
better things to do !

                           (o  o)
     "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."  Thomas Jefferson
  Take Back Tennessee NEW WEB PAGE.......
 Project to Restore the Republic
   Dot Bibee  (  Ph/FAX (423) 577-7011
   Index of Newsletters are available upon Request



First of all, let me congradulate Mr. Joe "Sixpack" Burton for the first -- and only -- coherent account concerning this year's events, the follies of the militia generals this year at Knob Creek, Kentucky. Mr. Burton describes the situation which occurred with the breathless naive narrative as a survivor of one of these man-made disasters which could have been avoided with a little foresight. One gets a picture of what happened very well in Mr. Burton's narrative. Mr. Burton is either exactly one of these common-men who upon occassion describe things uncommonly well, or a master of such understated subtilty that he belongs in the Mossad.

For example, take his foreshadowing the figurative bogging down of the militia movement in the mud created by militia-general foolishness with the example of the man in the car at the first part of his report. Rather than stop immediately when the car bogged down, or waiting for the rescue tractor to arrive and give a tow, the idiot in the car decides to splatter with mud those trying to help him. Then the fool sprays those who are just standing by, before getting so bogged down that waiting for the rescue tractor becomes inevitable.

Such, in a nutshell, is what ended up happening at Knob Creek. Everyone who went there, acted like the fool in the car or the person caught in the splatter, with themselves as militia generals ending up caked in the mud due to their own stupidity.



Lawrence Myers Responds To Joe Six-Pack

X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:34:23 -0400
From: "eagleflight----uNITED STATES Theatre Command----David E. Rydel" 
Subject: redistribute

From: "Ramon Sparks"  
To: "dave rydel"  
Subject: redistribute 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:29:55 -0400 

IN THE SERVICE OF THE KING OF KINGS ................                                             
Lawrence Myers Responds to "Joe Six Pack"

The earphone in my ear was connected to a two way radio, pin head. 
About a half dozen people at Knob Creek came with these new FRS UHF 
radios. They are cheap, effective and secure. (Normally, do you 
think undercover FBI "operatives" show up invited to a meeting
wearing a secret "wire" where the microphone is clipped to their 
shirt collars and an earphone is dangling from their ears?) It's 
called "2-way radio," genius. 
   I was invited to the meeting. In your "report" you neglected to 
mention that when I asked if anyone wanted me to leave the meeting, 
even you did not open your mouth. When I got up close to you, even 
though you were wearing a pistol, you were not nearly as mouthy, 
were you, coward? You told me you knew all about me and refused to 
tell me your name, other than "Joe 6pk." Fact is, everyone 
already knows all about you. Ask the poor bastards in jail up in 
Michigan who Joe 6pk is. 

    I go to Knob Creek twice a year, and have since the 1980's. 
(Perhaps we will meet again there.) I have known some of the people 
who were at that meeting for more than 10 years. I am not exactly 
clear on why I should respond to your recently posted ignorance. 
Call Media Bypass and ask the publisher or editor about me. I have 
never given any militia member or any other patriot bad press in my 
life. I defy you to find a single negative or inaccurate thing I 
have ever written about the "movement" since 1988. 

    You, however, are becoming an embarrassment to those who want to 
restore this country. Based on the opinions of those who laugh at 
your posts on the Internet, (Check the militia newsgroups there 
Joe,) you certainly have chosen an appropriate name. 

    "Six Pack" evidently defines your primary "source" for all the 
"secret information" you have managed to uncover in your career as an 
"intelligence investigator" for the patriot movement.
Compare our written records. 

   Joe 6pk AKA 50 year old Joel Burton of Clinton, TN is well known 
is his hometown as a "high profile paranoid," according to a local 
reporter who now refuses to return his calls. (Do you deny this, 
Joe?)  Neighbors on Market Street avoid him, local reporters and 
cops ignore him.  Even though he has now cut off his pony-tail, 
everyone in town still recognizes him from quite a distance away. 
Which is how they like to keep it. Ask anyone on his street.

    Armed with a six pack and a keyboard, he is, of course, a 
self-proclaimed "legend" on the Net. Space aliens and UN troops 
have no chance when old Joe 6pk is on the case. For example, in 
one of his hilarious posts to the "In-Search-Of" UFO newsgroup 
of 23 Jun 1997, Mr. Burton states, while driving down the interstate, 
he spotted a black helicopter overhead as he was observed by "two 
men in camos holding what appeared to be some strange large lensed 
objects like a special kind of binocular." 

   In the same post he discusses the evil "unmarked black helicopters" 
that have hovered over his house  "on 6/6/97, (filmed and 
documented)," and of course, those secret video cameras;
"globe looking objects similar to ones in Wal Mart and K mart." that 
spied on him all the way to another secret "mission" up in Ohio last 
summer. And everyone should beware of what Mr. Burton calls "TYRANNY" 
(sic) "His eye is not just on me, its on you too and your families, 
friends, co-workers and fellow citizens!!" he warns the UFO newsgroup 
in this post.

  This year, Burton posted yet another secret report "Black shoppers 
all over" (sic) Aside from the interesting typo in the title, his 
report of the trials and tribulations of being a secret patriot is 
as instructive as it is amusing. It is available at: 

   Here, Agent Joe must have more than one six pack. He reports that 
he went down to the local National Guard armory to "educate them" 
with all of his secret knowledge, and the local Army commander 
actually invited him in to review all of his "documents." 
Amazingly, this Army officer, of course, was converted to the 
patriot cause right there on the spot. According to 6pk, the officer 
had already read Joes' many Internet postings and even gave Mr. 
Burton the locations for some other "secret basses" (sic) close 
by, that even Joe Six Pack admits he was unaware of.

   There were, of course, serious consequences for giving all of 
this secret potentially mutinous information to the local U.S. 
Army. In fact, Mr. Six Pack reports that on this very same day 
"suddenly a Black Cobra swoops down on me. Since I had neither 
my American Express nor my SKS rifle, I turned around and head 
for the crib!! As I got to the first traffic light it turned red 
and I stopped and the helicopter did too." This story, and the 
"hypothermia" he says he suffered spying on the secret UN camp 
disguised as a "Bluebird Bus Company" terminal really  makes us 
want to follow the terrifying adventures of knife-in-the-teeth Joe.

   Make no mistake about it. The evil NWO gummint is clearly 
intimidated by Agent Six Pack. For example, he tells us about 
his sighting of "28 black chops near our airport. After I reported 
their location they were moved."  And Joe always, somehow, keeps 
catching them in the act.  Agent Six Pack even recently cracked 
the conspiracy behind those white smoke trails left in the sky by 
jets flying overhead. That's the government's secret chemical war 
on patriots. He told his local muffler shop owner about the "vivid 
prism of colors" in the sky, which he explained as follows: "I gave 
him the rundown on the JP-8 jet fuel mixed with EDB (ethleylene di 
bromide)[sic]. I said this is perpetrated by our own government." 
Yep, those white UN planes have been doing this for years. 
(Don't try telling Joe that most commercial airliners are painted 
white for any other reason than that they are part of the UN 
global government conspiracy.)

Now, all of those "secret towers" coming up in East Tennessee are 
also part of an evil plot exposed by Agent Six Pack.  A simple quick 
look will tell you these are new cellular phone sites, but Secret 
Patriot Intelligence Agent Joe suspects otherwise. He won't tell 
us exactly what, since, he says "I still refuse to turn this into 
a tech manual. Some are microwave, some CONUS, etc. etc." (FYI Joe, 
"CONUS" is the standard military acronym for Continental United 
States, and has been since at least 1960.)

Joe does suggest we "take out" these evil towers, though, not all of 
them. "These towers are in sectors, you do'tn (sic) have to take out 
every tower if our country is attacked (or does the attacking). One 
per sector will do the trick if done properly. Nuff said on that!!" 
Thanks, Agent Six Pack. How many people have you conned into 
conspiring to "take out" cell phone towers in your community so 
far?  Weren't you up in Michigan last fall telling those guys they 
should figure out a way to "take out" the local TV towers and 
highways?  They got caught following your "advice," didn't they?  
(Do you deny this, Joe?)

By the way, Agent Double-O-Six-Pack, you can stop those "beams" 
you claim are causing you headaches and giving you those "closed 
lumpy sores" on the back of your throat by wearing a tin foil liner 
in your militia hat, and dangling some paper clips from the cuffs 
of your pants so the "microwave CONUS" beams will ground out when 
they come in contact with you. 

Yep, I accused the FBI of setting me up in a murder for hire plot. 
Check the court transcripts, pin-head. Tell me you work for the CIA 
and try and hire me to kill your child and I am likely to call 911. 
Your opinions mean nothing to me, Joe. Post, plot, piss and moan all 
you want.  Your opinion and your vital "work" speaks for itself. 
I am not a militia member. I am not in any group. I simply gave 
some basic commo instructions to Dave Rydell, at his request and 
attended a meeting at someone's invitation.

And, for the record, genius, as far as who was or was not a "federal 
agent" at the meeting you continuously disrupted with your pinhead 
paranoid nonsense last weekend, as one person who walked out suggested, 
"You could probably spot the federal agent in the meeting. He was the 
one laughing the loudest..."   



Mr. Rydel Asks For Advice

Subject:  Once again..."OUR FUTURE"
Please distribute widely
Shepperdsville,  KY (Knob Creek)
   I know the sacrifice in both time and expense that many good 
patriots made in order to attend a meeting that never came to be.  
Unfortunately, the meeting was sabotaged from the begining.  
However, I  was in charge of the meeting so I must take the blame 
for all of the interruption that took place.
   I would like to hear from all of you on what would you like to 
see happen now.  What do we do?  What actions do we take?  Where do 
we go from here? 
   Should we hold a meeting to go over this thing at end of June or 
   Should we head  in a certain direction or just call it quits? 
   Please give me your  answers to  these questions and ask of me 
any questions you may have.  I need to hear from YOU on what YOU want.
Please Advise 
warm regards, 
Dave R. 
 Please visit
  To receive posts from this list send an E-MAIL to me with the word 
 "subscribe" in the subject box.
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Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:07:45 -0400
To: "72113.1673"(
From: "eagleflight----uNITED STATES Theatre Command----David E. Rydel" 
Subject: Knob Creek

>Reply-To: (
>From: "Pamela Wheeler" (
>To: (
>Subject: Knob Creek
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:31:26 -0500
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>Hello Dave,
>I am very sorry to hear what happened at Knob Creek. I had hoped 
>that by now the ego freaks would have learned that they are the 
>problem and have no voice worth hearing in the solution! I am 
>glad to hear that you were cleared of wrong doing.  I have felt 
>for some time now that you are the genuine article. You and Art 
>Bean and Walt were three people I would stand with and not be 
>afraid to turn my back. I know that you and Walt have had
>your disagreements but I hope when all is said and done that you 
>two will put aside your differences. You are both good men, you 
>both take a different tact and there in lies the problem.  I 
>think the world of Walt for what he did for me one bad moment at 
>Knob Creek. I doubt that he ever told you about it but I heard 
>the gunfire and started to come unglued. For a moment, I was back 
>in the Nam and was remembering the day I got shot to hell. If 
>Walt had not stepped forward and helped I might have gone postal.
>No one on this earth is perfect and we all have our crosses to 
>bear.  Try to remember that my friend and you will be an even 
>better leader than you are now. You know my history and that is 
>why I am writing to you. I am very disturbed by the fractious 
>attitudes among the militia.  Rick Ainsworth dressed me down 
>when I requested that he remove my name from his list (which he 
>has not bothered to upgrade or check) and I am surprised at his
>behavior. He came off to me as Mr. Saint Goody Two Shoes and 
>then he walks out? The man is two faced! I have to agree that 
>Joe is right.  A national militia is out. But one thing is very 
>clear. We have to have a means of communication between the 
>various militia.  We also desperately need a way to find out 
>who is an informant. I suspected that Lawrence was a CI when I
>met him in Gadsden. I made him an offer that any real reporter 
>would have jumped on with both feet and he shrugged it off. I 
>also took note on some things he said to me during a conversation. 
>Old news I know.  But therein lies the problem that you and all 
>militia people face. If someone is a CI or a CW or FBI or 
>whatever, their tracks are very well covered. I know that
>you know that I am very well aware of what I say. I would love 
>to sit down with you and Art and a few others and try to 
>figure a way to deal with this problem.  To be honest I have 
>no suggestions as to how you can ferret out these people. There 
>are however some signs to look for. If you would give
>me a call at (210)- 658- 2559 I will be more than happy to talk 
>to you about this. I can not afford to call you at this time 
>because I am strapped for funds. As you know I am not working 
>now. BTW.. that is one of the things that points out some of 
>your enemies. If they don't have a full time job and yet always 
>seem able to I used to!  Please send my regards 
>and best wishes to Art. I hope he is doing well. And tell Joe 
>that I thank him for the report on Knob Creek. Yes David I am
>keeping up with what is going on now. I feel that time is 
>growing short for our way of life and that the time is coming 
>soon when we will have to pull together or lose. I guess that 
>is why I was so unhappy to hear what happened at Knob Creek.
>Ken McWilliams




Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:40:31 -0400
From: "eagleflight----uNITED STATES Theatre Command----David E. Rydel" 
Subject: Re: USTC

From: Intel96B (
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:10:59 EDT
Subject: Re: USTC

The following posting was on Eagle Flight, and solicited comments and
suggestions. My comments are interspersed in parenthesis:

From: BTiraspols (
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:47:28 EDT
Subject: USTC

David E. Rydel, United States Theatre Command

April 24, 1998				

We all (some of us) know the truth (believe) that in spite of recent
turbulent events (unspecified) USTC (uSTC) is the only (only?) 
existing valid (viable) Communication and Coordination Center of 
US Militia.. (there is NO SUCH THING as U.S. Militia. There may be 
Rhode Island Naval Militia, Tennessee Volunteer Militia, Unorganized 
Militia of Pennsylvania, and other "militias" at a STATE LEVEL, but 
not U.S. Militia)

Q: In your opinion, what makes it "valid"? Just curious.

We also know (believe) that even two Militias within the same state 
often don't trust and/or get along with each other (no argument 
there). We all seem to know what to do (do about what? be specific, 
give examples), but the mistrust and bickering (individuality) 
divides the People and appear to make any common goal impossible 
to achieve! (Please define what, in your opinion, our "common
goals" are.)

This is a true (subjective) and very unfortunate situation.

We need to get the (Constitutional?) Militia and all (all?) Patriot 
groups (please define "patriot groups") to align themselves under 
one umbrella of communication and coordination command (communication 
and coordination, maybe, command, NO!) And we all know that is a 
formidable task. (There are some so-called "patriot groups" I would 
want nothing to do with, so be specific with your definition).

In order to form a mighty Unity for restoration of the Republic among 
the squabble Militia and Patriot groups, we desperately need an 
Organization, which would be an invaluable Instrument of Unity (sort 
of like the United Nations?), the Organization that would solve the 
existing problem of separation of the People and solve it now! USTC 
(uSTC) is such an Organization! (uSTC is a communications network, 
nothing more, probably never will be. I think it's a good 
communications tool, but that's all it is.)  However, in order to 
achieve the goal of productive (please define "productive") and 
potent Unity, I firmly believe we need some serious organizational 
changes.  (I don't suppose there would be a Field Marshal Boris
involved with this scheme somewhere?) 

One of the structural changes I propose is to extend USTC (uSTC) 
Staff to include at least one representative from each state of 
the Union.  Each State Representative will have it's own State 
Theatre Command Staff consisting of a representative from each 
militia group that is a member.  A State Theatre Command will have 
the same responsibilities as USTC (uSTC), within their state:
Communication and Coordination among the Militia and Patriot groups. 
A State Theatre Commands will also be responsible to perform the 
duties of USTC (uSTC), should USTC (uSTC) for any reason be 
incapable of performing the duties of nationwide command or be 
hindered in doing so by outside parties (might as well initiate 
the "State level" plan now, because that's where the militia
belongs, and, in my opinion, uSTC is already, and always has been, 
"incapable of performing the duties of nationwide command", a 
concept with which I disagree anyway). Individual groups will 
have Representatives of USTC (uSTC) and will be responsible for 
organizing their own Staff in their communities with the same 
level of responsibilities: Communication and Coordination among
the Militia and Patriot groups (I noticed you left out the word 
"command" that time). 

(What makes you so sure that this isn't already happening, and 
nobody told you about it?)

Any individual regardless (regardless of what?) may become a 
Member of USTC (uSTC) if that individual is a citizen of the US, 
loves the Country and is ready, willing and able to serve the People 
and the Nation with Honesty, Kindness, Devotion and Bravery, obey 
orders and accept discipline (O.K., now here's where we start to 
have a problem. From whom shall these "orders and discipline" 
issue? Field Marshal Boris? I don't believe that ANY state-level
militia, or ANY local militia, or even ANY individual should 
"obey orders and accept discipline" from ANYBODY outside of those 
already prescribed by law, i.e.:
(1) County Sheriff, and his appointed deputies,
(2) Governor of the State, and his appointed officers, and
(3) in time of War or National Emergency, the President of the United 
States and his appointed officers).
(See Title 18, USC 1385 and Title 10, USC 311)

The following is a draft of the Oath of Affirmation for Members of 

All USTC (uSTC) staff at all levels will be required to take the 
Oath of Affirmation and it is highly recommended to have members 
of individual groups take the oath as well.
                        Oath of Affirmation

This oath is to be given with the right hand raised and the left 
hand placed on a copy of the Constitution of the United States of 

"I do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully execute responsibilities 
as a member of United States Theatre Command, the Communication and 
Coordination Center of the US Militia. I will obey discipline and 
orders of my Commanders, and to the best of my ability will 
preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States 
and the unalienable Rights of the People.  And for the support of 
this Oath with a firm reliance on the Protection of divine 
Providence, I pledge my Life, my Fortune and my sacred Honor".  

Boris Tiraspolsky-Sheremet'ev 

(Well, gee, Boris, I'm all choked-up. Sounds good except that 
"nationwide command" business. I took an oath already, so I'm not 
really very interested in taking yours. Mine went something like 

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend 
the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, 
foreign and domestic, that I take this oath freely, without any 
mental reservations or purpose of evasion, and that I will, well 
and faithfully, discharge the duties of the office which I am 
about to enter, so help me God." 

Looking forward to hearing from you. UVIDIMSYA, TOVARISH !!)









Current Conditions in this Country

Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:33:14 -0400
From: Mark A. Smith (
To: SNET (, 
    Richard Biondi (,
    Ray Southwell (, 
    PRJ (,
    PIML (, 
    Norm Olson (,
    L & J (,
    David Rydel (
Subject: piml] Current Conditions in this Country
X-bmw: Black Marble Wombat Version 5.1 Galstar Secure Hack


     In the three years since the Oklahoma City bombing federal
counterterrorism squads have thwarted plots to assassinate judges,
poison water supplies, blow up a gas refinery and even bomb the 
FBI's national fingerprint identification center.  With hundreds 
of new agents and millions of additional dollars, authorities have 
racked up convictions and guilty pleas in a beefed-up approach to 
preventing domestic terrorist attacks.  This statement begins a 
story in Knight Ridder Newspapers in April of 1998.  One would 
expect this to mark the beginning of the end of the Militia Movement 
and any threat to the status quo, but has it?  What effect has this 
had on the Militia Movement and other resistance organizations, and 
what are some of the perspective responses to this newest federal 
threat?  These are questions that I will briefly address.


     There were three major events and a number of smaller ones 
that triggered a return to the Militia Movement in this country. The 
first of the three major events to occur was the Los Angeles riots, 
which were triggered by the first Rodney King verdict. In that 
incident, we witnessed for the first time the refusal of the local 
police to go into areas of Los Angeles for reasons of personal safety. 
The Mayor ordered that no ammunition be sold to anyone and 
California's 15 day waiting period for the purchase of any firearm 
prevented the citizens from providing their own defense.  Only those 
citizens who were currently armed with both guns and ammunition were 
in a position to defend themselves and their property.  That incident 
served as a wake-up call like no other.

     Following the L.A. riots, many were horrified by the Ruby 
Ridge and Waco incidents. The deliberate murder of a young mother 
holding her 10 month old baby by an FBI sniper was probably the most 
polarizing event to happen in America in this century.  Here you had 
a highly trained FBI sniper who chose to follow orders he knew, or 
should known, to be illegal. Those orders called for the snipers to 
shoot to kill any person at the Weaver cabin who was merely armed. 
Few Americans know that there were three 2-man FBI sniper teams at 
Ruby Ridge that eventful day who refused to follow those illegal 

     FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi testified at the Randy Weaver trial 
that he shot Randy Weaver as he was approaching a shed located near 
his cabin.  After firing the first shot, Horiuchi claimed he had 
time to work the bolt of his rifle, aim and fire a shot at Kevin 
Harris as he ran back toward the cabin.  As Harris reached the cabin 
door, Horiuchi fired, striking Vickie Weaver in the face as she 
stood in the doorway holding her infant in her arms.  The bullet 
exited Vickie's head and wounded Kevin Harris as he dashed into the 
cabin behind her. We have reason to believe Horiuchi's story was a 

     The judge hearing the case harshly criticized both the 
prosecution and the FBI for this deliberate misstatement of the 
facts. The Jury acquitted both Weaver and Harris of murder on the 
basis of self defense. Weaver settled with the government for 3.1 
million of our tax dollars.  The local district attorney charged 
Horiuchi only with negligent homicide.  FBI Director Louis Freeh 
pledged to use our tax dollars to defend Horiuchi and the charge 
was recently dropped in Federal court.

     The Waco incident also served to polarize us. I suggest you 
obtain a copy of the video entitled "Waco, Rules of Engagement" 
(nominated for an Academy Award this year) to fully grasp what 
really happened when 17 little children were gassed and then burned 
to death along with over 60 adults.  The FBI's own Forward Looking 
Infra Red (FLIR) footage taken from the air will prove to you that 
the FBI intended to kill every man, woman and child.

     As has become commonplace, the mainstream media has never 
presented the public with the true facts surrounding the Ruby Ridge 
and Waco incidents, but every Militia member knows these facts very 
well.  Further, as these facts are being revealed to more and more 
Americans through the Internet and other non-mainstream forms of 
publication, the Militia are growing in membership exponentially.

     To date, only one FBI agent has been imprisoned for 
obstruction of justice in the Weaver case, and that sentence was 
only 18 months.  No prosecutions have taken place in the Waco 
incident.  Both cases were triggered by one common event: A federal 
agent or agents, had been killed by those the FBI later slaughtered. 
Perhaps the FBI wanted to send a clear message that such behavior, 
even in the act of self defense, would not be tolerated.  The 
unintended consequence was the massive formation of citizen Militia 
all across the nation.


     The Oklahoma City bombing gave the Federal Government an 
opportunity to move against the growing Militia which were rightly 
perceived as a threat to the status quo.  Whether there was any 
federal involvement in the actual explosion or not is being 
investigated by an Oklahoma Grand Jury at this time and there is 
a suit for wrongful death against the U.S. Government by over 
140 family members and survivors also ongoing.  Only time will tell 
what they turn up, but for practical purposes of this discussion 
Government complicity is unimportant.

     The event has been likened to the Reichstag fire in Germany 
on February 28, 1933.  Although there is debate among historians 
as to whether the Nazi's actually set the fire, there is no debate 
that Hitler used the occasion to create a national crisis and as 
justification for a sharp curtailment in constitutionally guaranteed 
civil liberties.  The Nazi's also took advantage of the additional 
Federal police powers to suppress opponents, and it is clear that 
the Nazi's did use the tactic of creating a "law and order" crisis 
so that they could provide a solution which further eroded civil 
liberties and entrenched their power.

    Shortly after the bombing, President Clinton blamed the "Right 
Wing Militia and talk Radio", for the blast, even though there was 
no evidence of Militia involvement.  He got antiterrorism 
legislation that had been bottled up in Congress for so long, Federal 
agencies got increased budgets, the ATF had new life breathed into 
it, and most important, the Government had a straw man that it could 
knock down to justify increasing erosion of civil liberties.

    The Reichstag fire proved that democracy can be destroyed by 
creating a "law and order" crisis and offering as a solution the 
abdication of civil liberties and state's rights to a powerful but 
unaccountable central authority.


     Reaction to recent efforts by law enforcement to infiltrate, 
prosecute and disrupt their activities has come in many forms.  A 
recent development announced by The Vigo Examiner tells of a 
consortium of militia groups around the country that have announced 
a plan to rid themselves of individuals in their midst who are 
actually working for various federal and local police agencies.  
Their plan uses an obscure, but relatively simple technology.  They 
will use computers to analyze tape recorded statements for stress 
levels.  The human voice has a natural frequency.  If the individual 
tells a lie the added stress causes the natural frequency to shift 
very slightly, indicating that the statement is not true.

     Plans are being made for group members to individually, and
voluntarily make statements of loyalty, to be analyzed by an 
independent contractor who has no knowledge of the identity of the 
person making the statement.  Anyone failing the test, or refusing 
to take the test is out.

     According to the story, law enforcement officials are 
greatly disturbed by this.  Their major effort to place individuals 
under false colors into citizens' organizations has resulted in 
major disruptions of their activities, and a great deal of finger 
pointing and suspicion in their ranks.  Many have been brought to 
the brink of complete dissolution.  This could represent a major 
threat to this program of infiltration by informants and agents 

    Voice analysis notwithstanding, a more practical response has 
been taking place.  With the federal agents drawing the teeth of 
militia units many came to see them as mere debating societies 
and convenient boogie men for the Government to use for its own 
purposes.  These more "active" members were looking for something 
new and picked up on the concept of Leaderless Resistance.  This 
concept was first proposed by Col. Ulius Louis Amoss in April 1962.  
His theories of organization were primarily directed against the 
threat of eventual communist take-over in the United States.  The 
theme was picked up more recently by one of his followers, Lewis 
Beam, well known to the resistance.

    The thrust of his paper is that large groups are not safe or 
effective.  Easily infiltrated and tracked they can be used or 
destroyed at the whim of the state.  Instead of joining large 
groups they are encouraged to form small autonomous cells that 
operate, and train independently of one another, never reporting 
to a single headquarters or leader for direction or instruction.

    The rational behind this strategy contends that it is harder 
for law enforcement to detect, monitor, infiltrate and neutralize 
activities of small independent cells.  Individuals are encouraged 
to form either very small, or even one person cells.  In theory, 
cells with more than one person are to consist of only close 
associates who can be trusted and will not discuss group activities 
and operational methods outside the cell.

    It is the responsibility of each cell to acquire the necessary 
skills and intelligence to carry out their plans.  Information 
mediums such as periodicals, newsletters, public access TV, chat 
rooms, bulletin boards, Internet sites, radio broadcasts, 1-800 
"hot lines," fax networks, etc will keep each person informed of 
events, allowing them to determine the proper time to act and 
appropriate actions to take.  This limited cell theory of organization 
has been expanded on by both left and right wing groups.

    Training can be handled in a variety of ways.  There are such 
books as Paladin Press's "how to Kill" series, and Kurt Saxon's Poor 
Man's James Bond.  Videos, periodicals and Internet sites provide 
instruction for those not familiar with military operations or 
weapons.  These describe such skills as bomb making, how to obtain 
explosives, chemical and biological weapons, sniper tactics and 
ambushing, surveillance and countersurveillance techniques.  Another 
source of training is, of course, the U.S. military.

    There is a growing resistance movement within the U.S. military.
Evidence of this can be found in the growing availability and 
increased sophistication of antistatist periodicals such as The 
Special Forces Resister.  This magazine, started and edited by an 
active duty Special Forces soldier (since retired) was pointed 
straight at members of special operations units in all services.  That 
he has been successful was recently demonstrated when by use of the 
resistance network video taped photos of U.S. Army troops 
participating in the "final solution" at Waco have been identified 
as to name and rank.  Tapes of their Colonel (now General) on scene 
have also been identified.

     One incident that helped to spark the movement was a 
questionnaire administered to U.S. Navy SEAL Platoons, Marine combat 
veterans stationed at Twenty Nine Palms, California, and Marine 
basic trainees at Camp Pendelton California, beginning in September 
1993, asking, among other things, if they would "... fire upon U.S. 
citizens who refuse to resist confiscation of firearms banned by 
the U.S. Government

     Resistance movements are also growing within civilian law 
enforcement.  "Operation Vampire Killer" is one such organization. 
The stated purpose is to alert members of the National Guard, police 
and military to threats to freedom and our form of government from 
statist politicians and organizations.  They state, "Our Operation 
Vampire Killer 2000 plan involves awakening (education) of our 
fellow officers to the extreme need for them to take an immediate 
and active role in assisting their fellow Americans in the New 
World Order, using every lawful means available."

    There is evidence that resistance to statist, status quo 
objectives is taking hold in many areas and in many forms.  Law 
enforcement and military organizations have learned that infiltration, 
and subversion are two way streets.  This tension could continue 
indefinitely, with the game going to the well equipped, staffed, and 
funded forces of government if social conditions remain the same.  
The prospect of an unexpected wild card upsetting the balance of 
power is my next topic of discussion.


	Military commanders, bureaucrats and others within status 
quo organizations are most comfortable with concepts, problems and 
people that stay "inside the box."  This is because it gives them 
opportunity to do what they do best, and look good for their 
superiors.  This is required if they are to be successful within 
the organization.  The problem with this sort of thinking is that 
most innovative solutions come from "outside of the box."  We were 
thinking outside with the way that we fought the British for our 
independence, and the British complained loudly about it.  Every 
enemy that ever caused us problems devised plans that were outside 
of the box.  I say this because there seems to be a volunteer state 
of myopia about a problem that has potential to knock everyone 
"outside the box."

     That problem is, of course the Year 2000, or Y2K problem.  A 
good explanation for why it will probably be more of a problem than 
is currently popular to consider is furnished in the article "Blind 
Man's Bluff in the Year 2000."  Increasingly pessimistic reports to 
Congress from such as the President and CEO of Century Technology 
Services, Office of management and Budget's Fourth Quarter Report, 
and articles in technical journals , such as Techweekall point to 
a growing awareness of possible catastrophic social upheaval.

    Such problems as loss of electrical power for any extended 
period of time could cripple military forces, as was demonstrated 
in a recent war game.  Our military would literally be lost without 
computers.  A crippled or weakened military and law enforcement 
could induce leaderless resistance cells to attack bases, outpost 
or police stations in search of weapons, food and other equipment.  
These attacks would further de-stabilize a weakened government, 
especially if unpopular measures such as martial law were resorted 
to control the crisis.  The ones best positioned to survive a major 
disruption of the system are the very ones that would resist 
government attempts to keep, or regain control the most.


     It is American tradition to be suspicious of government in 
general, and this current government in particular.  In an April 
1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll taken shortly after the Oklahoma 
City bombing found that over half of American citizens thought that 
the federal government had grown so large and powerful that it 
poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary 
citizens.  Additional and subsequent polls have tended to reinforce 
these findings.   Given the background of leaders of the present 
administration and the Presidents constant stream of Executive 
Orders designed to suspend the Constitution, control all
aspects of citizens lives in case he decides that politically it 
is possible to declare a national emergency, I would expect 
resistance organizations and groups of all types to continue to 
recruit, train and make preparations for what they see as a rapidly 
approaching Gotterdammerung.



   Virtually all of my sources have been taken from the Internet.  
Since there are often problems in locating a particular site, and 
links about this subject frequently disappear, I have appended all 
referenced articles for the readers convenience.

Appendix A:  U.S. Gains In Terrorism Crackdown, Judy L. Thomas,
Knight Ridder Newspapers, April 20, 1998.

Appendix B:  Origins of the Militia Movement letter: Carl F. Worden,
Liaison & Intelligence Officer Southern Oregon Militia,
December 22, 1997.

Appendix C:  Reichtag Fire, Weyrich Computer Consulting.

Appendix D:  Truth, New Threat To Law Enforcement, William Kemp, 
The Vigo Examiner, May 1, 1998.

Appendix E:  Leaderless Resistance, Louis Beam, The Seditionist,
February, 1992.

Appendix F:  Principles of Resistance Organization, Martin Lindstedt,
The Terrorism Research  Center, November 15, 1997.

Appendix G:  The Resister, John P. Zenger Press, Autumn 1997.

Appendix H:  Soldier Survey, E-Mail Posting to author, January 20,

Appendix I:  Operation Vampire Killer 2000, Officer Jack McLamb
(retired), no date.

Appendix J:  Blind Mans Bluff In The Year 2000, Dr. Gary North,
October 8, 1997.

Appendix K:  Statement of Michael P. Hardin, PH.D. President and 
Chief Executive Officer of Century Technology Services, Inc.
Before the Subcommittee on Government Management, Information, 
and Technology Committee on Government  Reform and Oversight, 
House of Representatives, March,  1998.

Appendix L:  4th Quarter Report, Progress on Year 2000 Conversion,
Office of Management and Budget, February 15, 1998.

Appendix M:  Doomsday Fears About Year 2000, Amara D. Angelica,
Techweek, May, 7, 1998.

Appendix N:  Computer Hackers Could Disable Military, Bill Gertz,
Washington Times, April 16, 1998.

Appendix O:  CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll, April, 1995

Appendix P:  Do You Believe That Uncle Sam Is Out To Get You?, 
Thomas Hargrove and Guido Stempel III, Scrips Howard News Service,
June, 1997.

Appendix Q:  The Executive Order Above All Executive Orders, 
E-Mail posting to author, April 1, 1998.



Return Fire! -- Letters to the Editor

>>Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:49:07 -0800
>>From: Jon Roland  (
>>Subject: Knob Creek 
>>Here it is again.
>>  From: Jon Roland (
>>  Subject: Knob Creek 
>>  Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:08:49 -0800 
>>I did not attend the Knob Creek meeting, but based on what I 
>>encountered at the Reno meeting and the reports I have received, 
>>the outcome was about what I expected.

   The outcome at Knob Creek was certainly predictable given past 
performances at Knob Creek and the increasing political and military 
irrelevancy of the militia movement given the events of the past few 

>>At the risk of being repetitious, a major part of the problem is that 
>>most of the activists in this movement are still unclear on several 
>key concepts, most of which I covered in the Texas Militia Papers, 
>available on our site, which were issued beginning in March, 1994. 
>The points made there are not idle philosophizing. They have very 
>real implications for action, and without a firm understanding of 
>>them disasters like Knob Creek are all too predictable.

    I myself agree with some of Mr. Roland's analysis and disagree 
with most of it given the same facts.  However, calling the events 
of Knob Creek "disasters' is altogether accurate.  The weaknesses 
of the open militia movement and its foolish 'leadership' were 
revealed.  Such a disaster brought ridicule down on the 
perpetraitors of such silliness.  Our enemies laughed.  The 
Resistance is concerned at the dismantling of the open component 
of the militia movement.

   Mr. Roland's Texas Militia Papers of 1994 were very timely and 
pertinent -- back in 1994 or even 1995.  They are a death-trap today. 
Resistance formation today is by cell.  Cell formation involves 
forming up in terms of blood relationship or long-standing friendship. 
But rather than go back into Resistance Organization, I wish to to 
deal with the usages of the open militia organizations still around 

    I think the purpose of the open, above-ground militias still 
intact is to do what they do best: pump out anti-regime propaganda 
and act as a sort of farm team for the actual fighting Resistance 
by identifying, organizing, and directing back underground those 
open patriots seeking answers.  Thus the above-ground public militias 
still have a political and communications, as opposed to military use.
>>First, to be successful such a meeting needs to have a specific agenda to 
>>which all participants are committed. That means they must not go there 
>>seeking to vent their emotions or to find sweeping solutions to every

    Mr. Roland is correct.  In an age of e-mail and PGP encryption 
there is no excuse for not having an agenda by those calling the 
meeting.  The points to be discussed should have been gone over, 
debated, and settled by the participants who would be there.  Not by
calling a meeting between feuding factions hoping that the gravity 
(and expense) of the meeting would be adequate to make sure all 
would somehow work out.
    A different meeting, that of the Gadsden Rally of '96 was far 
more successful because the theme was either simple (The trial of 
Robert Starr) or non-existant.  Having no agenda or planning  
worked out in that case because its nature was simply one of getting 
    The April 19, 1998 meeting did have high hopes.  Yet there was 
no discernable agenda whatsoever.  Any get-together was for purposes 
of complaining about real or imagined slights -- and with the resultant 

   Any future meeting or council must be organized to the point where 
there is no place for the events of April 19, 1998.  The points to be 
decided should have already been drawn up and debated, so that it is a 
matter of merely the participants voting (in person and/or via e-mail. 
In an age of computer communications there is no excuse for not having 
a director of computer communication for such meetings). 

>>The task of any meeting should be to solve a specific solvable 
>problem, that is, a problem that can be solved during the meeting 
>with only the personnel and resources the participants bring to 
>the meeting. Any discussion of what someone not present should do 
>should be ruled out of order. Likewise any discussion of resources 
>the participants don't have and probably can't get.

   Mr. Roland is correct.  In order to be able to solve any such 
problems, though, there must be at least an agenda.  To get the 
matters of debate over, it is best that the bulk of debate should 
have already taken place BEFORE the meeting. 

>>As J.J. Johnson has suggested, one such task might be to work out a 
>system of communications. Even that is probably too large a task for 
>such a meeting, especially if it hasn't been solved at the local level 

   Which of course stands to reason.  A militia unit which cannot 
communicate efficiently between its own members is unlikely to be able 
to communicate with outsiders.

>>Second, it is useless to argue about who is an infiltrator or 
>provocateur. Despite the claims by some that there are reliable 
>ways to identify such persons, experience proves otherwise. 

    Mr. Roland argues that effective organization is a better 
means of security against infilltraitors and provacateurs than 
reliance on a truth detector device.  I agree with Mr. Roland that 
organization is the number-one priority of any organization. Given 
effective organization, even the worst of such vermin can be largely
neutralized.  This is in spite of the fact that Mr. Roland favors 
open public militias and I favor the formation of 'Leaderless 
Resistance' cells.
   However, a truth detector or polygraph machine operated by a 
relatively neutral party can be an asset to a open militia movement 
which is allowing anyone from off the streets to join its organization. 
The presence of such would deter the petty fedsnitch who is working 
on a quota system of betrayal.  It might even deter all but the most 
hardened federal sneak-goon or agent provacateur.  Procedures could 
be worked out in forming the question to make sure that honest answers 
could be independently verified.  If two Missouri state troopers 
would have been subject to a proper questionnaire before they 
infilltraitored several Missouri militia organizations before Voice 
Stress Analysis became available, followup on the questionnaire 
would have revealed gaps in their whereabouts consistent with them 
being gubbnmintgungoon vermin for years previous.   
    Those honest persons who fail the VSA test but pass the 
questionnaire survey might be encouraged to form their own militia 
organization.  If they are honest then they will accept the fact 
that a means of winnowing the dishonest in a dishonest world is 
necessary for the security of a militia organization.

    Let us not put all our eggs in the one basket of organization.  
I think that we all can agree with the value (as opposed to absolute 
certainty) of procedures which will deter the federal narks from 
preying upon us.  Every open militia organization should have a unit 
concerned with internal security.


> As I pointed out in 1994, the way to deal with them is to conduct 
>all activities in a way that assumes they are present but makes no 
>difference if they are.  

   And that is what should have been the situation with Mr. Myers. 
Part of the reason for Knob Creek is to assure the world that the 
militia movement still exists and is relevant.  Mr. Myers should 
have been treated as any member of the regime media by those who 
don't like or trust him.  Whether he was liked or trusted is an 
irrelevancy.  Nobody in their right mind should like or trust these 
vultures in any case.  Reporters are there to be used in the same way 
they would use you for their benefit.  Nobody who cannot deal with 
such realities has any business talking to such creatures. 
   Methods of dire secrecy should not be discussed with people 
strange to yourself -- or reporters.  However, one of the purposes of 
Knob Creek was to put on a show.  That requires media.  If you don't 
want a circus then don't show them any clowns.

>None of us should be saying or doing anything that we don't want 
>the world to know or that would cast us on anything but high moral 
>ground, and we need to recruit such vast numbers and have so many 
>units that no infiltration effort can possibly cover them all.

   With Mr. Roland's attitude, it is no wonder that Resistance 
cells never show up at Knob Creek.  The best way to deal with 
infilltraitors is for the criminal regime to not know you even exist. 
Hence they will all be at Knob Creek pestering the militia generals 
like ticks on dogs.
    However, Knob Creek is a militia doings.  And given such 
organizations with their organizational faults allowing people 
who cannot be verified inside these organizations, Mr. Roland is 

>>Third, we need to drop ridiculously pretentious names like "theater

   At least Mr. Rydell dropped calling himself "The" Voice of the 
Militias several years ago.  The quality of his listserver has 
improved as he has learned. Rydel manfully took the deserved blame 
for the chaos which came about at a meeting he called to order 
without discernable agenda.  Recently he expressed an intent to 
learn from his mistakes and put aside the one weapon of mass 
destruction every militia general possesses -- his ego -- in 
order to ask for suggestions.
   It might very well be that the disaster at Knob Creek was exactly 
what was needed in order to jar both the participants and observers 
out of their rut.  The chaos and foolishness on display was altogether 
self-inflicted.  Perhaps those who wounded themselves will learn from 
from their embarrassment and pain sufficient wisdom to prevent a 
repeat of this foolishness. 
   At least Mr. Rydel seems to have learned something.

   There is something in what Mr. Roland says.  But yet is there 
anything wrong with militia organizations forming national linkages 
and calling themselves whatever they please?
   The value of Mr. Rydel's organization is in this spamlist which 
is monitored by about everybody concerned with the militia movement. 
Thus it already functions as a communications network for the militia, 
openly for the Resistance Political Front, covertly by using 
anonymous Internet e-mail for the Resistance Action Force cells. 
Thus Mr. Rydel's listserver is already a valuable communications 
asset of national impact.

   It is when Mr. Rydel presumes towards the other two C3 functions, 
such as "control" or especially "command" that the presumptions fall 
flat.  It is doubtful that Mr. Rydel will command any militia 
organizations other than those who seek his leadership.  The Resistance 
forces by their nature are beyond the command or control of anyone. 
   Yet, if there is anything such as a "u.S Theatre Command" for the 
militia movement Rydel has by hard work brought some of it about. By 
forming an open communications network for militiamen Rydel does 
ensure that he will be heard, and heard far more than any other 
militia leader.

>>What we need are committees of safety, elected locally by public 
>elections as we did in the Southern Region of Texas, and committees 
>of correspondence to link all the committees of safety together. 
>No attempt at anything like a centralized command structure should 
>even be contemplated at this stage.

    What percentage of the franchise is in favor of electing suspected 
revolutionaries or known troublemakers to represent them in the 
formation of a paramilitary organization?  None? Are we to allow 
regime criminals and their gubbnmintgungoons a vote in revolutionary 
    Patriotic man is not the same as common man.  Common man can 
always outvote patriotic man.  Anybody doubting this should look 
again at the vile creatures infesting Sodom-on-the-Potomac.
    Militia organizations, much less Resistance Organizations, are 
not mini-democracies.  If the people of such organizations cannot 
summon up enough legitimacy on their own to justify whatever it is 
they must do, then passing the buck to majority rule is no panacea 
for effective decision making and ruthless execution of policy. 

>>Fourth, the militia needs to be kept strictly separated from 
>political activities. That is not to say that political activities, 
>including lobbying, electioneering, litigation, and public education, 
>should not be a part of the daily activity of every militiaman, 
>but the term "militia" should not be associated with such activities, 
>which should be limited to organizing, training, and operations 
>for defense, riot control, criminal investigation, and emergency 

   Funny how Mr. Roland wanted to put the day to day operations of a 
militia in the hands of those best able to hustle up the vote, but yet, 
that having been accomplished, would make the militia a tool for 
regime 'law' enforcement.

    "Warfare is the continuation of politics by other means," says the 
military philosopher Clausewitz.  This is especially the case for 
Resistance and militia organizations.  Every member should be very 
politically aware, aware enough to subvert the regime at any possible 
opportunity.  While the qualifications and abilities of a Resistance 
adept are much higher than a militiaman, even a militiaman must 
be well aware of why he fights against the regime.
   The militia is the cadre for an Army of Revolution against the 
current regime and its regime criminals.  The regime criminals are 
instinctively aware of this, which is why they will not furnish 
arms, ammunition, or 'legal' authority to those who would string them 
up for treason.  The reverse in fact.
   Mr. Roland refuses to see these implications behind the militia 
movement.  Which is why he repeats these absurdities to the credulous.

>>It should be pointed out that, while the militia movement as a 
>whole has had a degree of success in making people aware that there 
>are problems with constitutional compliance, 

   Which is the end-all and be-all of Mr. Roland's commitment to the 
militia movement.

>                                     and in getting law enforcement 
>to think twice about confronting large, armed groups, 

   These cowardly swine have always been scared of messing with 
something which could put the hurt to them.  As I have pointed out 
before, violence or its threat is their only unit of measure.

>                        the main real success from any militia 
>>operation was the exposure of the Good 'Ol Boys Roundup back in 1995. 
>We need to focus on building a record of success at investigating 
>and exposing high-level wrongdoing. 

    The regime criminals convicted in their regime korts their 
gubbnmintgungoons as a result of militia "investigating and exposing 
high-level wrongdoing," did they?

>   That is what will bring us the public support that we 
>need to accomplish the other things we want to do.

     The public hates high-level wrongdoing.  That's why we got 
sloppy seconds on the Clinton regime.  What with him running the 
"Most ethical administration in U.S. history" and all.

>    Militia training needs to focus on criminal investigation. There 
>is no lack of opportunity to practice it, which should go a long way 
>to keeping people busy and interested and in building local 

    I don't know how militia people can listen to the above without 
a hoot of laughter.
    I would advise people to remember Bob Starr and his friends and 
how they got rewarded by the people -- 12 of them in a jury -- for 
playing cops and robbers with BATF snitches.
    Gubbnmintgungoons hate and fear militiamen.
    Shouldn't militiamen return such favors?

    Mr. Roland started out pretty good and wound up at such a feeble 
and pathetic end.


    Sun Tsu said "Know yourself and know your enemy.  Then a hundred 
battles fought and a hundred battles won."

    That is the problem with the militia movement.  It doesn't know 
itself or what it wants.  It has idiotic notions regarding the good 
faith of the regime and its enforcers.  Hence its factionalization 
into quarrelsome bands run by fools.  If the militia movement knew 
itself then it would have taken steps to avoid repeats of the 
same mistakes of its chaotic and egocentric militia generals,  
came to Knob Creek with an agenda, and, either under the firm hand 
of one warlord or by coming to a working consensus derive how to 
survive, then prevail in a hostile world.
    Is it any wonder that the militia movement has stumbled into a 
hundred skirmishes -- and so far lost almost every single one?

--Martin Lindstedt
See: The Modern Militiaman's Internet Gazette, Issue #11 at:




Copyright 1998. The Modern Militiaman's Internet Gazette



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